Too many topics... and no one seems to respond to topics ..... so we have a tribe of many conversations and no conversation... lots of ideas but no connection between them. Not meant as some sort of criticism but pure observation and the want for better..or different.
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Re: Ok.. We have an amazing tribe...but...
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 10:16 PMPeace Mad Jack Kash:
The issue you raise is something I know that Jair struggled with. Occasionally there are comments from members or actual discussion generated from the initial posts.
I have struggled with the same issue with other e-groups I have moderated. The difference for me in the past is that my posts were personal posts MEANT to encourage discussion. It was fairly successful (compared to other online discussion groups). However, only a very small percentage of the total number of members would actually participate.
I have accepted that the Woubi-Yossi Collective is mainly a list serve of news/event items. Of course, I realize that for members that initiate discussion threads (as you have done) with a sharing of personal experiences the response from this tribe (considered collectively) is usually anemic.
Your full participation in posting items to the discussion board is welcome, as it is from every member. -
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Re: Ok.. We have an amazing tribe...but...
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 11:20 PMYou are on point. Hey man i hope you did not think my posts was any degree of attack... I love the enviroment and the information i do gain when i visit here! *smile*
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Re: Ok.. We have an amazing tribe...but...
Thu, January 24, 2008 - 11:02 PMPeace, Mad Jack:
I'm now experiencing some of the frustration of being part of a largely unresponsive tribe. While Literary Masturbator was moderating, at least I would be alerted on the Tribe home page that there were new posts in this tribe. Of course, Literary Masturbator was making the vast majority of those posts. Since I officially became the moderator, the only times I've had the joy of seeing that there were new posts in this tribe were the posts made by you and TerryTown.
It's cool, though, for now. I recognize that it's part of the cost of being a leader.
By the way, I didn't interpret your original post as any kind of attack. You were saying something that NEEDED to be said. Kudos to you for speaking your mind.
Mad love to you, brother.
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Re: Ok.. We have an amazing tribe...but...
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 10:18 PMAfter several months of "moderating", I'm beginning to reflect on what Mad Jack Kash brought up originally. I think that what we have here...is a dead tribe. Should we just put it out its misery? -
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Re: Ok.. We have an amazing tribe...but...
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 9:29 PMThat's a question that really has to do with you as a moderator. Most of the Tribes I'm in are not very active now. A few have stayed up with the moderator just checking in form time to time. I kind of like that just because it seems a shame to delete all that's been created. But I certainly understand the other side. Please give us a heads up with what you decide Torrid. LOL if the Tribe is over I sill would like to sing the praises of all of you I've met here. I've got very fond memories. -
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Re: Ok.. We have an amazing tribe...but...
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 10:45 PMThanks for the feedback, John. I appreciate it.
Nooooo, I wasn't talking about deleting the tribe out of existence. It's not even possible for moderators to do this on Tribe (that's one reason there are thousands of tribes - many have been abandoned). Actually I don't know that I was suggesting anything as much as I was venting.
I would like to know if those of you who visit here do so because you value the content of the posts, out of habit (fond memories would be in this category, I believe) or because there are few other black-gay/black-gay-friendly places to go on this site.
It's patently clear to me that the vast majority of Woubi-Yossi's members (over 290 strong) have no (voiced) stake in what goes on here. I suppose I'd like to have confirmed by a consensus of some kind if I should put less effort into posting things. Those of us who are part of each other's personal networks will always be able to stay in touch. Some of the posts I make in Woubi-Yossi, I could just post to my blog instead. A small portion of my personal network and I ACTUALLY READ & RESPOND to each other's blog posts (and photos) on a regular basis. There are a greater number of my e-friends that regularly respond to my blog posts than the number of this tribe's active participants!
Still, we continue to get new members occasionally. Hmmm, I don’t know. What’s a mother to do? (lol)
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Re: Ok.. We have an amazing tribe...but...
Tue, April 8, 2008 - 6:25 PMI think we're afraid of getting too personal and things getting out of hand. However, community can't be built around everyone tip-toeing... and I say this as someone who is very cautious and meticulous in my expression (... cuz I will curse you out *giggles* General you, not subjective...).
We've been given much via Literary and now Torrid. There are SO MANY things we could talk about -- all these articles, things happening in the world around us. Yet, we haven't really punctured our world. I don't know a lot of the folks in here.
We've been a news serve... how do we become a tribe? -
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Re: Ok.. We have an amazing tribe...but...
Fri, April 11, 2008 - 3:38 PMSteampoof,
I think you pose a very profound question. Maybe we could become a tribe by re-introducing ourselves. Also, I suppose we could share our stories of our existence in this world, and be a sort of virtual support.
What do you guys think? -
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Re: Ok.. We have an amazing tribe...but...
Fri, April 11, 2008 - 5:36 PMI feel, as all of you do here in this tribe but………..we gotta stop with the censorship, because some of us (hehehe – myself) can’t abide by being a member of a tribe, that, wants to truncate a members post, because ‘others’ feel it goes against the mainstream consensus. This censorship ‘shit’ must stop. And I find this 'bone head' attitude being carried out and serveral tribes. Because somebody starts to whine and cry. People should be free to speak what they feel – providing it’s not intentional attacks against another.
Torrid, lol, you know already that I’ve a different view on life, living, and what I believe, and what I like to share. But, (as I’ve deleted myself from another tribe), what’s the use of posting a ‘thread’ when other members, are insisting it be ‘removed.’
I think we’re all wonderful contributors of subject matter here, and before we start shooting ‘flamed arrows’ at other members, we can at least, sit back, check-out, and give the post ( of the member) more consideration, and…….thought, and research. I think when a person feels that his or her opinions, or beliefs, or state of awareness becomes a target of ‘personal’ attacks, the member usually forfeits there membership, in search of ‘tribes’ they vibrate with the most.
Tribes, are not always about everyone going along with the majority, but allowing each voice to be heard and felt. Sure many may not agree with certain post, but at least, give it some room to breath. The fun part about the tribes is learning more about your self. People will let you know where they are coming from, and well, you just gotta allow room for that too.
Also, more about topics more related to personal experiences, and growth, and changes that a member has undergone and wants to share. I think a lot less post on web ‘articles’ can be given a make-over, and instead, the poster of related-link-articles, can at least, give a brief commentary on why they posted the related-link, and what they feel and have gained from the article.
Also, (and yes it can take time) send out a note to each member. How that can be done? Mmmmmm.
Just my say but, I feel my say has and carries some observation:-)
Whadda-ya-say? Whadda-ya-sasssssssy?
Terry -
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Re: Ok.. We have an amazing tribe...but...
Fri, April 11, 2008 - 9:42 PMI was very interested in reading TerryTown's comment because I was mulling over Roger and Steampoof's comments before and was thinking about things from a different direction.
This week there was a blog scuffle involving Amanda Marcotte borrowing ideas and words from blogger Brownfemipower without so much as a link or mention. Here's one door to the controversy daisysdeadair.blogspot.com/2008....html Steampoof has been impatient with my own obliviousness to privilege in this tribe and elsewhere. But particularly grating in this tribe because this tribe is for men of African descent.
Online forums are essentially open meetings, but what Tribe allows is to form discussion groups which are more defined. What Steampoof has said about this tribe is that it would be nice to for a place to let his hair down, a place where he might assume enough of a shared experience among the members, so that he doesn't have to explain the background stuff. That's a little different from censorship.
I am very sorry that Brownfemipower has taken down her blog. One of the effects is it make s the blog war a bit hard to follow. But part of the reason, I suspect, for taking down her blog is dealing with even allies wanting putting words in her mouth. I'm not sure where I found the link now, I think and extended excerpt must have been removed from Belledame222 blog fetchmemyaxe.blogspot.com/2008/...that's where I thought I saw it. Bfp talked about the damage of the appropriation as erasure.
So the balancing of values is difficult, on one side of the scale is the need a tribe to be with people where there is a level of trust, on the other is a public space where other same gender loving men of African descent can discover others.
Roger's point about reintroducing ourselves is a good one. But I also wonder if the idea of the tribe might be revisited. Literary has a long history of using the Internet so that people can connect to collaborate. I think he also was very keen to keep things open, and hence his welcoming me into the tribe. But people can be so many places online, and part of the level off trust comes from a shared experience, not just open access. Certainly I'm not talking about kicking people out of the tribe. What I'm saying is that the purpose of the tribe is something to consider and the sort of space that that Steampoof imagines where he doesn't have to explain stuff to white people, indeed seems a reasonable idea.
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Re: Ok.. We have an amazing tribe...but...
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 2:05 PMLooks like this post, has finally created the very thing, the subject line, had asked. Also, can anyone join this tribe (regardless of racial background and/or culture), and voice what they 'feel' without being lambasted. Without being accused of not understanding anothers 'race' and/or where they are coming from.
Terry -
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Re: Ok.. We have an amazing tribe...but...
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 5:38 PMThis tribe is moderated and does not have an open membership. Prospective members must request to join. Membership is not sex or race-based. Anyone may join provide they understand that this is a forum for gay men of color who affirm their African lineage to exchange ideas without having to explain the effects of racism, heterosexism, gender non conforming bias or the dynamics of racial, heterosexual, gender conforming privilege to friends within the tribe. It must also be accepted by our friends that using the Woubi-Yossi Collective to "cruise" or seek to objectify people of color for their own purposes is prohibited.
I'm not sure what censorship you were referring to, TerryTown, unless as John speculated you were referring to another tribe. Since I became the moderator, I've only had to advise one member that a photo he posted was inappropriate (and why). The member removed the photo immediately.
However, I'm not as tolerant as Literary was. Personal attacks won't be tolerated under any circumstances. Differences of opinion are one thing. Catty, shady sniping at anyone is quite another.
It's nice to see that an exchange of ideas has (finally) developed in this thread. Hats off to Mad Jack Kash for starting this thread.
I've been reflecting on the things being said...
SteamPoof's input that "we're afraid of getting too personal and things getting out of hand" caught my attention, particularly. We could always choose to make this tribe private. This would not enable non-members to view our tribe AT ALL. We would be hidden. However, I'm not sure this would effectively address anyone's fear of disclosures and/or emotionally charged responses. One downside to going private is that our tribe membership would only be able to grow by invitation only. New members to the site would not be able to find our tribe using keywords and the search engine.
Yes, TerryTown, I know the "different place" your points of view arise from (*wink*). It is to be expected that no one among is the mirror image of anyone else. Our individual viewpoints are what makes for the diversity of the tribe. If all of our viewpoints conformed to societal norms and mores there'd be nothing of substance to discuss. There would be no potential for learning or growth. Any, yes, there'd be no potential for controversy. I can't guarantee that no one will feel "lambasted" for an expressed opinion. I can only help insure that the line is not crossed into personal attacks by any individual member without moderator intervention.
I agree with Roger and John that re-introducing ourselves (or introducing ourselves initially) is a good idea.
Finally, I've decided to cut WAY DOWN on posting articles. It would have been WAY more work than I was willing to do to post articles along with a summary and personal commentary (especially, when wasn't sure anyone was reading my posts, except Roger). However, I was always willing to voice my opinions about the articles during the course of any discussions that ensued.
Oh, by the way, if there are any long standing hold-outs out there, please feel free to post your opinions. It's never too late to break your silence and share yourself with your brothers here.
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